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      Why NFTs need alt-layer networks | Project: The Meta Key 4

      All About AFFORDABLE NFTs, hosts Andrew aka Rantum and George from Mostly Stable on ZED Run, help navigate new projects, interview expert guests and explore NFT trends. Whether you’re on your first or fiftieth NFT, we’re going to have something for you. Keep track of all recommended affordable projects with our ‘keep us honest’ spreadsheet. 

      And a quick note that we are not financial advisors and nothing in this podcast should be taken as investment advice.

       

      Theme: Why NFTs need alt-layer networks

       

       

      Rough Transcript

       

      [00:00:00] Today on all about affordable NFTs, we are talking about why NFTs need all to layer one networks, I guess, alt layer networks, not even layer one networks as part of the larger ecosystem as Ethereum becomes a bit pricey which may be a nice lead into some of our news items. How's it going, Andrew?

      [00:00:22] Good. Good. Yeah, I would definitely be hesitant to say that you need all wear ones, but we will get into that a bit later. Yeah. And it is a little timely with some of the new. Then going on. Of course the big news recently has been the other side or the other deeds, a land sale from Hugo labs they released, or they 100,000 plots.

      [00:00:47] They brought in let's say. 561 million in trading within the first few days that all sorts of records is the one day high for the most sales ever. That has been the, the big talk everywhere. And of course this mint did not go without some pickups.

      [00:01:05] Yeah. Th the critiques are, are many. And obviously like, look, there's going to be fun, thrown around quite a bit when it comes to this, but the gas prices spike to ridiculous levels. And I think. Peek of around to eat. So that means minting plus to eat which is, which is pretty ridiculous. And, you know, certainly burns a significant amount of Ethereum.

      [00:01:29] Did they quote how much at your end they've? They tracked that was like burned as a part of this transaction.

      [00:01:35] I saw it was over a hundred million worth, a hundred million dollars worth anyway. So yeah, so yes, it looked like initially they were going to have this be a Dutch auction. They abandoned that for some reason, the Dutch auction, the idea is that it starts at a higher price than, than most are willing to pay.

      [00:01:52] It drops over time. And. So you've got you don't have everybody jumping in at exactly the same time. So they abandoned that model ended up going with a flat 305 eight which was, I believe about two and a half eith at the time. That, that has fluctuated greatly since then. And both are I guess, negative, but but it's fluctuated a lot.

      [00:02:13] But any way that when they did abandon that, they also announced that there'd be multiple ways. Of minting so that you can mint to in the first way, if you were on the wait list you'd had to fill out the KYC form, which neither one of us had done because they had not said what this was for at the time.

      [00:02:31] So they did have an idea of how many there were there ended up being aren't. There were over a hundred thousand that had done the KYC. Then people were looking at how many had actually approved the contract. And I held enough, eight to mint either one or two and within two hours or so before the mint actually occurred, they or some people figured out that it was going to mint out in that first wave due to the number of wallets that had approved it.

      [00:02:59] And. So there were people jumping, you know, trying to jump the line, painting incredibly high gas fees because they assumed it would be worth it. That of course is you know, now factored into the cost at least on their side. But yeah, that's, it, it, it, it slowed down the entire network because any women transacting doing anythings had the same gas fees and, you know, it was for at least a few hours.

      [00:03:22] That it was like this. So yet really slow down the network. You go afterwards announced that it was clear that Ethereum was. Able to handle the 80 for the Hugo labs ecosystem, which you know, I think there's a lot of ways to, to say that there that is maybe faulty, but they also did create this by, they knew how many people had the wallet.

      [00:03:47] They knew many, many lands were available. So it seems like a supply demand issue in many ways regardless of the gas. But yes, it was over a hundred million. Sorry, burnt. They were going, or they are going to, I think they have refunded all of the unsuccessful mentors. There are many people that did not get their mince through.

      [00:04:06] So they have refunded that. And I guess the other part of this, they haven't announced that they need to launch their own their own layer for the ape. For all of the ecosystem. So it seems like they've maybe retraced or, you know what is it they're maybe not going to go that far right away, but there was a lot of discussion of whether they manufactured this for the purpose of announcing a new layer.

      [00:04:32] I don't know, you know, it's, it's hard to say that they, they could have put that all together. But it, it. Yeah, they definitely gave an example of why problems with Ethereum at times when there is huge congestion on the next.

      [00:04:47] Yeah, it's hard to speculate on the, you know, using it as an excuse. I don't think you needed that as a, as a narrative. Like you just say that as you want to create it in New York, there's, you know, the Ronin network out there, there is you know, flow with NBA top shop. It's like, there's very much a precedent for large networks doing this.

      [00:05:07] It was you know, by their own Testament, a incredibly poorly done. You know, the limitations of the net where you can't be surprised when you go outside in the rain without an umbrella and you get wet. There are limitations to the network. And if you drive an unprecedented amount of whales and to a short period of time and squeeze them on gas and they all ratchet it up, it's just a function of the, where the network is right now.

      [00:05:31] It will be better in a year. It'll be even better in two years, but you do that on pretty much any network it's going to have a problem. So, you know, I you know, It went poorly, you know, like that that's, that's how it goes. And you know, they, they did refund some people, but you know, right now, if I sat there and I, you know, you said it's about two, two and a half year, it costs roughly depending on what you did with ape, right.

      [00:05:55] For fermenting it. And then on top of that, you add the fact that you paid another two weeks in gas, like you're underwater, you're below floor price currently Flora's at 3.59. And also I w I don't know if. If I'm UGA labs, like, and I don't have, like, I don't know, fully developed game ecosystem for how all of this land is going to get used.

      [00:06:17] I don't know if I'd be jumping into creating an alt layer one right now. I'd be focused on how I deliver value on.

      [00:06:22] Yeah. And I think that actually kind of leads us to a next story here and we can get into a little more discussion of the layers, but the next story is over the weekend, we also had a Solano crash. It was down for seven hours. It was another layer, one there, where there's. There were bots forming a candy machine and a T type of thing on Solano.

      [00:06:42] So it crashed the whole network. So that was actually down for seven hours, not high fees, it was just unusable. So you know, that's the other side, you know, when you don't have a very stable network it can completely go down, you know, Ethereum it's, it's made to be expensive at times because. There are a lot of people that want to use it, and you have to be able to deal with that when it does happen.

      [00:07:02] As opposed to just having the whole network crash,

      [00:07:06] Yeah, it stops spots by making it prohibitively expensive to, you know, process a whole bunch of transactions in a tight, tight, tight amount of time. Yeah. And there's a difference because the word crash was being thrown around for it hearing You didn't crash. It reads gases to absurd. So Ilana

      [00:07:22] prices, right? I mean, it's, it's an absurd traffic jam it's and to get through it, you're going to have to pay an absurd amount. Now the difference, I guess, would be the roads. Closed. There was no getting on the roads. There was no access to roads on the Ethereum network. You couldn't do any, I mean, I'm sorry, on the salon network.

      [00:07:43] Yeah. Sorry, I don't want it want to make that clear on this Alonda network. There was no access to the roads, so different story there. You know, and I think you get into a little bit more of that. Let's see. Yeah, we've got this story about the A print potentially migrating away. I would say that there is, there is precedent for causing or showing people why something could be, you know, another network would be needed.

      [00:08:05] And that is quite the event to have a ton of eyeballs and probably worth spending a hundred million on to, to show people, look at how bad look at how much bigger we are than the Ethereum network. We completely crashed it and, you know, get people to move over to that other layer did that other and.

      [00:08:22] Got to look at. I don't know. I don't think that that's necessarily what was, you know, I think the idea was to make it a big event and it was, and, you know, we can see with 561 million being traded. It they've certainly succeeded in making it big now, you know, I think there's a lot more, whether it's, you know, how successful it could be, but the.

      [00:08:41] It's way too early to say if, if this project can be successful or not. Anyway you know, maybe that brings us to our next headline here. This is, this is quite the, the headline is all over the place here. What do you have for Joe

      [00:08:53] Wall street journal says NFTs are flat-lining and they do no manner of research. They were so excited to find one way to cut data in a certain odd inaccurate way that they could run this title. You just get this sense that. There are journalists just itching, traditional minded, hates tech, just itching for like, see it was all a fraud.

      [00:09:17] And now I can go back to the way things were. I can ignore the fact that the property layer of the internet is coming in. That, you know, blockchain is a real thing. They just can't wait for it so much. So that with no manner of diligence whatsoever, the wall street journal put out something that was so factually inaccurate and quickly.

      [00:09:35] That one of my favorite newsletters just broke this down so quickly, but basically saying in the article that NFTE sales are down 92% since September. And so like, they loved that, but like, frankly, they're, they're not. And if the volume on open seat hit all time high, all time highs, thanks to even what we just saw.

      [00:09:54] 480 million in sales volume on May 1st alone. And then like they show this chart and it's significantly high. You know, they're claiming that the number of active wallets are down 88%. The truth is that there's probably over 350,000 active wallets in the last week has been that way for 14 weeks of the last 17 weeks.

      [00:10:13] So it's like not decreasing at, at all. And, you know, it's It's great. When you can just look at blockchain data and say like, no, those are the numbers you say, whatever you want. Like, it's just, you know, when you get into this, like, I hate the, the narrative of fake news, but it's much harder to do that when you can pull data reports directly from from the source, it's all open.

      [00:10:40] Yeah, and well, it also leaves this all up for interpretation. I think that's one thing that we're struggling with right now is that all of this data can be sort of taken how you want it. Any data can really end that we don't have a lot of standards to look at. It's not like looking at. Looking at the stock market.

      [00:10:59] And I'm not saying that these are stocks or investments necessarily, but looking at the same everybody agreeing that these are the numbers we are going to use to gauge the health of the market. There's a lot of people that are just taking whatever they choose and, and running with it. And there are a lot of, a lot of peoples that would like to to tell the, the story of the end of the NFC and or the NMT market.

      [00:11:20] And. You know, and we'll find anything they can and that's, what's been done here. So it's certainly been it's been thrown around a lot. There's, I've seen some other headlines kind of I don't know, maybe playing on this one and saying that you know, trying to be more accurate with what they with what is going on.

      [00:11:37] So this is, this is certainly not it. And I'm not sure. I'm not sure what the reason for this is besides just trying to, to give that headline to everybody that's looking for.

      [00:11:49] Larry just such clickbait junk. And the joke of it also is that the largest day an open seat history just happened. Okay. Okay. Now there are points. I would write the article a different way actually. Like if I were to actually write it, I would just say like, you know, the NFT market is becoming a winner, take all extreme, you know, 1% play where it, you know, there's a hyper consolidation right now just around mega projects and an absolute sort of like shift in that direction.

      [00:12:18] And I could, I would have maybe parsed the data in a different way of saying like, unless you've got. Over six grand or, I mean, frankly, over like 10 grand to play, like NFTs are not for you like blue chips go up, but other things go down like they're, they're intelligent ways to write the article. If you spend more than 30 seconds looking at actual data but I don't want to give these folks any new ideas, so I'll hold back.

      [00:12:41] All right. Why don't we? Oh, no, you've got some project

      [00:12:44] Oh, I got some fun project news

      [00:12:46] right. Yeah.

      [00:12:47] we, you know, we went through and updated our, keep us. honest. And so, you know, looking around the human park project had a drop this like obelisk looking thing is kind of funny. They dropped it to all holders. We have no clue what the thing is for, but you know, it's out there.

      [00:13:02] It's a thing and it's showing that they're continuing to develop. And I still like that project quite a bit. It's built on the polygon network and then the crypto unicorn games. So we talked about crypto unicorn, Atlanta. You know, a while back and I will say, Yeah.

      [00:13:19] that was on March 4th. The gland we recommended was like, 0.17.

      [00:13:23] And it actually, since this launch is now hovering around 0.4 or or on 0.2 for basic, and it's really it's pretty cool. You know, there's an actual gameplay dynamic there. You know, who knows, you know, it's, it's play, it's a play to earn type of thing, but there's a whole dynamic marketplace and planting and playing around there.

      [00:13:41] So might be worth worth look if you haven't seen it or if you have got it. But I always, you know, I'm always thrilled when the, Hey here's a game that promised they'd make a game and they finally launched. Cause it's very hard to do that. So applause to that group and you know, it works. I logged in, I planted some random rainbow seeds and I harvest.

      [00:14:02] Now I've got more of them and I'm not quite sure what to do with that.

      [00:14:05] All right. Well, we'll move on. I've got an affordable project now. On here for us this week called the medic key. This is actually the fourth edition just came out. So this is about a year old, I believe. Cause I remember you know, now very obviously stupidly passing on minting that first one. And those are our four eighth floor.

      [00:14:25] This is the fourth. These are, I guess, one of the earlier utility type NFTs. The gives you access and discounts on various Properties or sorry, various places around the web. Really? In web three, they have quite a big, quite a lineup of partners. It's run by. Let's see. He's I don't know what this name is.

      [00:14:47] Maddie BCL blogger. Is the the Twitter name. He is. Got a big following there and has been around the space for a long time. Definitely has a good understanding, good connections there. So this is the newest the newest key here is that the floor is, I think just under 0.2, as we're looking at this what I like about it is a team been around.

      [00:15:09] I think you're going to continue working at this. And then it is in that utility area that we have been looking at recently,

      [00:15:15] Yeah. it's got this funny graphic spinning around. It looks like a souped up. technical card that as that kind of spins around. So it gives you access to just general pieces, right? Like it's like e-commerce stores, it says eligible for airdrops.

      [00:15:38] That's what I was trying to get at. It's quite a range of, of access and features here. It's not exactly what you would expect, not strictly web three. It's not just a, and it's certainly not just like for people that are doing minting or something like that, that a lot of different use cases here. So I think it's worth taking a look at.

      [00:15:55] Especially at that floor price you know, watch around. I don't know, I've been watching the floor too closely, but it's one, I'm going to start looking at a little bit more and look for maybe a good price to enter it.

      [00:16:07] Yeah. And again, I see what you're saying in addition one is like at four eith yeah, it's a wide range. It says, you know, potential conferences, virtual worlds in decentral end and sandbox. Clubs rooms, experiences. So it.

      [00:16:21] really seems like they're, you know, you're not buying art, you're buying access. And, you know, we have seen that sort of access on the rise.

      [00:16:27] And I liked the bet on at least something that has got a proven track record of doing this, not just like here's a brand new thing, we've got no connections, but we've got this access token. Good luck. So, you know, proven, proven pieces there. Yeah, flora 0.2 right now and yeah. Worth watching. Certainly if, you know, as each slips and maybe long tail projects kind of get overlooked this is an interesting one.

      [00:16:51] And you said you owned one or no?

      [00:16:53] I do not own one yet. I should, should note that as of now I do not own one. Just starting to look at that now. So it may change by the time it comes out. I may buy one. I've been but I have not got one as of this recording.

      [00:17:07] Take a

      [00:17:07] All right. Well,

      [00:17:08] Hold on. I want to see the team

      [00:17:10] okay, hold on. Yeah, let's

      [00:17:12] chase that down. the medic, he.com and they have a fully doxed team, which, you know, big check, big check mark. Yeah.

      [00:17:22] And they have a very large team looking at. Probably 24 employees and they they, again, they have a founder and a co-founder and these folks seem real with real names. So good. That's my other big

      [00:17:37] would be one improvement I would say is they could put the website on their open, see listing instead of going to

      [00:17:45] ended up on referable. Yeah.

      [00:17:46] Right. I think, I don't know if they're

      [00:17:49] feedback, if you're, if

      [00:17:50] some sort of comment here, but Well, we'll put those, we'll put that in the show notes. For folks oh, okay. Onto our theme. So as we just noted, the theory of networks have become, will become very expensive. And again, this is by design for the stability of the networks and for, you know, validating number of transactions that go on.

      [00:18:11] So, you know, Andrew for you, you know, why, you know, why do NFTs need this all layer, these these layer twos to, to get where we need to go versus I'd say maybe the con The counter to that, which is why not just, you know, wait for the merge, wait for the urge and wait for Ethereum to just get better over time.

      [00:18:30] Right. So I think that for one, we've got to refer to more of the know NFTs that need a lot of transactions, things that are used in games think that you're using transact, moving around a lot, maybe lower priced, NFTs things that are just requiring you to do a lot on chain. When you're talking about high valued NFTs things, Bunks or board apes, you know, I don't think there's a problem with those being on a theory.

      [00:18:56] And given that the, the fees are relatively. It's a relatively small amount of the asset percentage of asset value. Now, when you're going out to these other, these other places where you've got to where you're transacting more, and those fees are really adding up that's when you've got to find someplace else, someplace else to do these transactions and layer twos specifically Ethereum layer twos, give you give both the stability of the Ethereum now.

      [00:19:23] The security of the Ethereum network and the ability to transact cheaply and quickly so they can hold, they can handle many more transactions and they do this by do, by handling all the transactions on their network initially, and then rolling them up by combining them all and writing them to the Ethereum network in one batch, as opposed to.

      [00:19:45] Maybe a thousand transactions going through individually, they can write one transaction. So it's much cheaper by putting them all together. It's much faster and it still relies on that network. So that. That's the, that's a reserve. The way that those layer twos can actually handle it. And the reason is that these NFTs just need more.

      [00:20:06] They need so many transactions that it's just not feasible to be doing it on layer one, as soon as we explained what the costs getting to where they are now.

      [00:20:13] So to be clear, can you just name some popular layer twos that live on top of a theory? I'm just to put names on this thing.

      [00:20:21] Yeah, that's great. And we should Solano. I'm sorry. Solana is not one. We were talking about Solano earlier. That's eight layer one. Sorry. That was on my mind. That's another layer one. And I wanted to make that clear. That's the layer one. So as far as layer twos, now we've got polygon. We've talked about that in.

      [00:20:39] Slight discrepancy of whether it's a, an official layer two or not, but we'll, we'll just include that for, for intents and purposes here as a layer two on Ethereum. And it's been around for, for, I mean, pay relatively long time for these layer twos. And it it's considered pretty stable.

      [00:20:56] There have been some, some bugs that have been found, which is a good thing. You know, you want these networks tested and you want to find that there are things so that it is getting better over time. Another one is optimism. They we mentioned them recently. They've recently had a, they haven't had the token drop yet, but they've announced it.

      [00:21:15] And you can check your balance there that you have a, an NFT marketplace quixotic. It's not very popular yet. But it does make it much more feasible to do these and Ft transactions on that layer. Let's see. Some others would be arbitrary them. Zika sync, these don't ha arbitrary, arbitrary has more of a NFT marketplace.

      [00:21:38] Though it

      [00:21:39] All brains lives, right? Or do I forgot?

      [00:21:42] That's right. Yeah. So it's on the, we've talked about this a little bit. It's a treasure of marketplace. Magic and treasure have both had some issues, both security and team wise. So, you know, there's, aren't, you know, I think that is one thing to keep in mind. These aren't without risk.

      [00:22:00] They have less risk in my mind than, than layer ones where They really haven't been tested in any way. I shouldn't say in any way, but in any large scale, Way over a long period of time. That makes me nervous. These layer twos. I'm not saying that you don't have to feel a little nervous about these.

      [00:22:22] We've definitely seen cross some cross chain hacks but they do offer more security and keeps it a lot closer to, to eat. Which personally, I just prefer in general, I think that. That that will hold a lot more value over time. Regardless of, of how so the sort of the multi chain I don't know, future goes here.

      [00:22:48] You know, we don't know exactly how that'll play out, but I think things that are connected to the Ethereum network will benefit by being on that theory of network.

      [00:22:56] Yeah, they get to borrow the security of a theorem and depending on obviously how they're coded, but get to borrow the security of Ethereum and then add the, the speed, the transactions per second, that, you know, as you mentioned, games need in general, frankly, for large-scale adoption, you're just going to need more throughput and.

      [00:23:15] And you don't have to look very far back earlier in February, there was 320 million stolen in that. So on a bridge attack, like, okay, fine. Cause a PE firm, which is predominantly how salon is backed. Just wrote a check and they're like, all right, done. And the other pieces, the underlying token that underwrites, these, these various platforms is a, is another sort of added layer of risk, or I would say.

      [00:23:44] Saying. All right. Well, how much are you creating of that token? Is it depreciating or appreciating? Because anything that you transact on there is denominated in that took is paid for, for minors or for staking or for the, the market price of that. And if you are dealing with a unstable volatile or deflationary or aggressively deflationary under written token for that platform, then like, all right, what is your net worth?

      [00:24:11] That's a good question because it's. Based currency could be in Solano, which has dropped quite significantly. And twenty-five percent more if it's going to be printed this year. I remember them people in crypto getting pretty angry when the U S government printed 40% of its currency. Okay. Next year, you know what, they're going to do print another 25%, you know, that they're going to do.

      [00:24:31] So I think that's another consideration, but yeah, getting back to security, that has to be the table stakes, I think for for any platform that's going to let you hold. I want to know that that property is going to be there and not get.

      [00:24:44] Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I think it kind of goes back to the idea of. Of UGA potentially launching that ape chain. And to me, the ultra, there's an alternative where maybe they partner with one of these existing layer twos and bring it over to one of these where they've got these, they've got all the benefits of being right next to Ethereum.

      [00:25:06] And, you know, I guess the other part of this is it's a lot closer to people's wallets. They don't want, you know, When you don't have to get your, get your funds onto another chain completely. It's a lot easier to go between layer one and layer twos. You know, it's, it's easier to be able to bring those funds over there.

      [00:25:22] Know, I think that's the way I would hope that they would end up going here so that they can stay closer to those Ethereum routes and still get the benefits of transacting, cheaply, moving things around quickly. And, you know, I would think. Benefit a lot of benefit. One of these layer twos, you know, as we've talked about, I think that there could be a quite a war for users.

      [00:25:42] So if you can sort of, you can guarantee that you're going to get the, the UGA the, the Yugo holders to come on over and, you know, they do make some noise. They tend to they tend to be, to, to tell people about the things that they're doing. And you know, I could see that being a good marketing play for one of the.

      [00:26:01] Chains instead of just, you get potentially rolling out their own and hoping for the best you know, as we've seen the minting wasn't the best. And it would, I would be concerned with them watching their own, their own network and not having issues there. I mean, it would be hard for anybody to do, and they certainly haven't shown that they they're without making mistakes in the technical realm.

      [00:26:27] We just leaving roll back the clock. Whenever you're listening to this. They're not even able to keep their Instagram password protected. They got their Instagram hacked. It costs their folks $3 million in NFTs that were stolen from them. A very basic hack that was then posted from that channel. And you want to create a scalable layer, one that competes with Ethereum, that's been in business with some of the smartest people, developing it for a number of years.

      [00:26:58] And you know, how many millions, billions of dollars in it. I mean, even want to compete with something like the Ronin network that got hacks for 650 million.

      [00:27:07] I'm not sure if you've heard about some of the great projects that have launched on the Ethereum network. There's all sorts of them.

      [00:27:13] board apes.

      [00:27:14] Yeah, that's right.

      [00:27:15] have heard It there's one the, a theater of network.

      [00:27:19] Punks crypto pumps. The, you probably heard of that when you acquire your entire company is built on it. I feel like it was just a throwaway statement and they had to walk it back because at a certain point, you know, you, people will begin to realize you're just making more and more promises.

      [00:27:34] And it's just like a pile of promises that will eventually be developed. But I think building an alt layer one is a ridiculous statement.

      [00:27:42] Yeah. Yeah. It seems like that maybe won't be happening. I know immutable has has made some noise about trying to be a partner. Of course

      [00:27:50] And immutable is a, is an alt layer one.

      [00:27:52] That's right. So they have, they're also the ones that have partnered with GameStop. It seems like they are good at partnering those in the right place.

      [00:27:59] So I don't know if that'll happen or not. I haven't heard a whole lot about that marketplace recently, but then again, there are more and more marketplaces all the time and we're seeing little bits of activity. Just, just spurred up everywhere now.

      [00:28:13] I'm hearing a lot about avalanche and then sort of their, their own scalability. Haven't seen a lot of like big name hacks, which is not necessarily say good or bad. You know, their, their token is incredible. I mean, everything is down but that's, you know, one where I see some smart people starting to load up on, which is interesting as a layer one that I'm like, I'm gonna like take a look at some more and then there's wax, which has been in the game a long time, but just.

      [00:28:36] You know, I think MLB had the largest type of relationship from a, from a high level with them last summer. And that really didn't go anywhere. And any of them

      [00:28:46] sort of drop today and I don't think I'm not sure what chain that was on. Are you, do you know what. I don't know. I should say NLB. Sorry. This was tops specifically.

      [00:28:56] is different. Yeah.

      [00:28:58] Yeah. Nevermind. I realized I

      [00:29:00] Is there any other layer, one that's on your radar?

      [00:29:02] No. I mean, I'm more.

      [00:29:06] I'm more aware and more into the out layer layer twos than the not layer ones. I would say. I'm not quite as in tune with those.

      [00:29:15] Yeah. I mean, obviously for us, we've recommended projects on polygon, you know, I've seen it in action. I've used it. I trust that I've been able to bridge things back and forth and. Easier and easier. Because anytime you're, you're moving between Queens or between even layers, you need to use these bridges, which means you need, you know, that's another point of failure that can occur.

      [00:29:35] So, you know, one, one layer one layer, one layer, two bridge that I like a lot is Umbria. A lot of folks use that one, but yeah, look NFTs are going to need getting back to our theme here. Layer to layers that are, they're going to get there, be it a polygon, arbitrary optimism, others that, that build on top of it.

      [00:29:54] And organizations that launch on a theorem and don't code their stuff the right way, and then get angry that it didn't work. Cause they have like large files, small pipe and high expectation of a window of which people that act. You know, it's like someone getting angry when their website crashes, what we sent everybody there, but we only had you know, bandwidth for a hundred people and we coded it that way.

      [00:30:18] We need to create a new internet because our website crashed like Dakota did poorly. You launched it. Ineffectually and yeah, it rained on you

      [00:30:27] Right. There are technical limitations.

      [00:30:29] the new inner.

      [00:30:30] You gotta, you gotta deal with those. This is, this is nothing new. There have always been technical limitations. You can, you know, there are ways to break systems. Believe it or not.

      [00:30:39] It's. Yeah, I guess that that final metaphor just seals it for me. I mean, a new, I need to create a new internet. My website crashed because I put a shit server and dumpy code and okay. I enough ragging on it. It was a successful drop. It was a historical high day, like an amazing to watch. And in the same, same week, a, a wall street journal say like, and if these are flat-lining and then an all time record broken after an all time record was broken by moon birds.

      [00:31:05] There's a funny things happening in the end of sector. And we'll definitely keep an eye on layer twos. All right. Andrew. Thank you.

      [00:31:12] All right. Good talking, George.