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  • Centralization often cited as crucial differentiator
  • How does KYC fit into distinction?
  • In many cases, “decentralized” orgs have a controlling number of tokens held by a small number of people
  • Wallet as authentication vs login/social as authentication. But discord still the main avenue of comms. 

Rough Transcript

[00:00:00] Today on all about affordable NFTs. We're talking about what the difference is between web three and web two applications. It sounds pretty obvious, but there's some nuance and some important differences. That'll be fun to tease out. Also a quick, thanks to our discord for letting me know that I accidentally uploaded a blank episode, just get air.

[00:00:23] So I appreciate that. And

[00:00:26] again, if someone is listening, I thought it was maybe a little test and you know, it's good people, somebody did check and get back back to us. So yeah. You passed the test listeners. Thank you. Or congratulate. It's

[00:00:43] good to know that we're not just talking to each other, although I probably just did it because it forces me to do research and pay attention and kind of put things out there.

[00:00:52] So what's going on in the news.

[00:00:55] Yeah. We've had some awesome big news dropping recently. So the rumored other side launch coming from UGA labs, which is yugas land minting. So there's a hundred thousand. Plots they've released some more details about this. Previously, there had been some details leaked from a pitch deck, but some more details confirm now, so this sale will happen on our let's see, by the time we're listening to this, let's see.

[00:01:24] I think this may have just happened in my rate, George.

[00:01:27] Well, we go, this'll be, there'll be listening to this on for

[00:01:30] ride. Okay. I'm sorry. This is, this is coming up on Saturday the 30th. So it depends when you listen to this, but it is on April 30th and it's a hundred thousand. Land's going to be praised in ape.

[00:01:42] There's no specific. Announced yet, but it is a Dutch auction. There's rumors that it may start around one eith worth, although I've heard two or three eith worth of Abe token. So we've seen the praise of ape climbing recently. I think it's up near 18 or so last I checked. And I think it will have a big impact on the on the NFT market as a whole.

[00:02:05] You know, it's, it's one interesting part to this is that. To be on the wait list for this, you must have filled out eight or completed a KYC know your customer application. And this was something that wasn't clarified when they released that. There were a lot of rumors that may be holding other projects, such as a world of women and crypt codes and some of these other projects that were shown in their other side video that those might give white lists opportunities, but instead it's actually for people.

[00:02:37] Are filled out the KYC form successfully seems that they are really trying to limit this to one per person, you know, much harder to to fake a person when they've got to go through a KYC process.

[00:02:50] And for KYC, just to be clear, that also means that they are obliged to report on any tax. Information or it's

[00:03:00] unclear what it's unclear, how they're doing that.

[00:03:03] Because one interesting thing here is that if you're a board, eight member board, a holder or a mutant NAPE holder, you don't have to do the KYC process. So you don't have to go through this thing. So I'm not sure that it's going to be. Necessarily reported, but you know, they will have that information.

[00:03:20] And, you know, we've seen countless situations in both, you know, web two and web three, as we're getting to have plenty of hacks and data leaks. So, you know, there is some concern and, you know, some, some pushback from a lot of people in the NFT community that prioritize more of the decentralized maybe anonymous way that a lot of people, our age, or a lot of collections are able to allow people to get involved.

[00:03:45] I feel like there's a future episode where we talk about the like pro-con KYC ethos versus like, let's just be honest. This is a $5 billion company operating in large part in the United States with people that should be maybe paying taxes on massive gains given. Board , you know, like, I mean, not saying that they aren't by any means, but I could imagine a legislative body looking at a $5 billion valued company with that type of lens.

[00:04:13] Interesting. Are you going to be, you need to line it up for the Lakeland

[00:04:17] or what, what are you thinking? No, you know, I don't, I did not go through that KYC process. So I'm not on that white list. I do have some ape token and you know, I think that that's still could climb a little higher there.

[00:04:29] There's a lot of excitement and you know, it's hard to hard for people to really bet against you to go at this point. They have, they have yet to miss on any of their mints. And while it seems like a lot of land and I'm not a N I'd be hesitant, even if I were on the wait list. I not ready to bet against them.

[00:04:45] Yeah. I will. I'll I'll be sitting this one out, as I said on discord, I, I missed the UGA train and I try not to jump on trains that have left the station. Cause there's one leaving. Every month, it seems. But I agree with that summary speaking

[00:05:01] of

[00:05:01] this one was a big one. They, they had. Instagram account hacked. And there were, they, someone released an announcement that they had started the other side meant early and looks like how much was taken here,

[00:05:17] $3 million. And this is like, this is all, it took a couple of quick posts on Instagram to trick people into a fake site, hook them and rip them.

[00:05:28] Uh that's that's it right? Like the, the costs of. Social media security. Speaking of web two has a, has a different level at this point because of the quick access to capital hidden in wallets, locked in wallets, easily accessed. Once you sign a con.

[00:05:46] Yeah, it doesn't seem like there's many, many NFTE projects doing much on Instagram.

[00:05:51] So I would be at this point, be wary of any links there, especially things that seem a little too good to be true, but you know, it's hard because that is the The culture that we're breeding to, to jump and then ask questions. Right. And it can be difficult at times you have

[00:06:07] 10 minutes to sign this thing.

[00:06:09] Oh, you missed it. Oh, too bad. Oh, you have, if you see the sweet, you have to act now. Okay. Now look what's to say that, that Twitter account, like something just Instagram what's to say that Twitter account isn't hacked or the discord I'm actually in the land of a peg ACCE. I really respect the team. Cause one of the things that they do.

[00:06:27] I think every other month or so they literally post in their announcements channel, something designed to like fake hack or white hat hack their audience. So recently are coming out with this, like download for a for racing the actual Pega on your mobile app. So it's like a mobile app download and they just created a spoof site and then they just announced it.

[00:06:47] And then they come back and say like, if you went to this, you were just hacked by us. You weren't hacked. You could have. Never follow links that don't make sense, pay attention. Right? Like they did that,

[00:06:57] Amanda with a bag of bones or something. Right. We've seen that way back.

[00:07:02] Oh boy. The bones. Yeah. Right.

[00:07:05] But I think there, I think that it's something that I think some of these projects should start. Sort of steel Manning should white hat hack themselves should really protect their audience in a, in a deeper way. And I think overall it might even lead to deeper trust and a smarter community because we are still in the beginning of new people, learning what it means to run around with a, with a hot wallet on.

[00:07:26] Yeah, absolutely. So we've got another big, big money story here after a big mint. And I don't know you want to walk us through this one, George. So the

[00:07:37] title coming out of crypto briefing is days after $66 million NFT drop moon birds, executive unveils, a fund. And I guess that's like a nice way of framing it.

[00:07:47] Different way to say it. I mean, it is a factual thing of what has happened here. Not much opinion there. So this is the COO of the proof collective who, and they just had the, the mega successful moon birds drop went up to close to 40. I think it's now a floor of about 28 or something last I looked, but yeah.

[00:08:10] And we talked about it a bit, how much money they brought in right away and over 15 million just in secondary royalty fees. And that was after this. As we mentioned here, $66 million drop. Oh, boy, I have to

[00:08:23] say we were hanging out and talking unrecorded and believe it or not, we speak to each other on recorded and I have to hand it to you.

[00:08:29] Andrew, you literally told me this. You literally said, look at the history of both of these guys while they have incredible, you know, knock it out of the park home runs. They also start and stop and start and stop things. They're serial entrepreneurs doing a lot of things and you kind of like question the long-term conviction of them.

[00:08:46] And I was like, yeah, yeah, sure, sure. As like a risk factor when we were talking about. You know, should we jump in at an absurd price when, when it launched? I just can't believe how quickly that sort of premonition came true as Ryan Carson is now moving on to launch his NFT focused fund called 121 gigawatts, not a bad nod to back to the future, not a bad nod, but like immediately leave as like there's a reason they saw two power players working together on a project, part of the perceived value.

[00:09:17] That fact that, you know, his name was involved with it. Now it's still, Kevin Rose is still an awesome, it's still very strong project,

[00:09:23] but to be fair, I think more people were interested in Kevin Rose. Then more people were aware of Kevin Rose passed and then Ryan Carson's, he's been kind of put into the spotlight by Kevin Rose and by this, the success of the proof project, I would say It's still, you know, it's still just, it's not great to see a team split up that quickly to see someone.

[00:09:46] I mean, the fun sounds like it's very going to be doing very similar things to what proof and to what moon birds is already promising. So, you know, it's, it's also a competitor in that sense and, you know, it's, it's I don't know. I think he said that they're already 80 people in interested, but there were also required 25 each for four consecutive quarters.

[00:10:08] So that's a hundred eith you know, this is that's huge, even compared to the floor of the moon birds, you know, and you know, not a great look at the very least not great timing. You know, it was also interesting that he had put a quote or a tweet out asking for someone to put together a one-page website for him about seven hours before he announced this fund.

[00:10:28] I'm impressed. He was able to get it done that quickly, but generally speaking, not I wouldn't say that's a whole lot of forethought to launching that project, so I'm sure there was a little bit more going on behind the scenes, but I don't know. I it's it's we'll see what happens to move birds here.

[00:10:44] It's definitely going to be a challenge for them at the, in the short-term.

[00:10:49] Yeah. I feel like I'm as we talk, I just have other themes. I would love to talk about like the, that just spin off of this, the number of people that were already like quasi calling moon birds, a blue chip, anything you're like, we got to redefine that.

[00:11:06] So I'm going to parking lot. What blue chip actually means how it's being missed freaking used and how it definitely shouldn't be applied to something that has been live for seven days.

[00:11:16] Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think price is often too too much correlated with what makes a blue chip collect, writing it down right now.

[00:11:25] That's a good one. George. We'll come back to that. All right. Let's move on to our affordable project while you write that down. I've got one there this week and you know, it's one that I wish. Recommended a couple of days ago. Cause it has, the price has moved a bit on it. But this is rugged. Radio is a Genesis NFT there.

[00:11:43] I believe the floor is sitting a little above 0.3. It's been hovering around a bit. It had been down under point. Under 0.2, five a couple of days ago. So it's picked up a bit. Although it's still down a lot from where it once was. So rug radio is a decentralized media company, essentially that is producing very NFTs, but it's mostly.

[00:12:08] Focused content. They do a lot of Twitter spaces in various topics at various hosts that do different shows and let the users produce the content. You can get these Genesis NFTs, and then they have a membership NFT, a different collection. Of course the Genesis is is the higher priced one and it yields a rug token each day that you hold it.

[00:12:33] There are various levels in there. So you get different amounts. If you, I can't remember the exact amount, but once you get enough of the rug token, you can exchange it for a rug, Dow tokens. You can become a member of that Dow. They do have some big names that are involved with this. Keith Keith Grossman from time magazine is he has a number.

[00:12:54] He hold a number of them and is also on. They're thinking what they call it. The council there, a few, other of the big NFT collectors and investors are involved in the project as well. I, I listened to one of the shows, almost every weekday, and I think that they are live shows,

[00:13:14] right. You can't listen to it.

[00:13:15] Exactly. That's, that's a, that is a not great right now. They do have plans to change that. So they want, they are, you know, they, they are changing that around. I don't know exactly how they are going to do it. If they're going to do a podcast or what they're going to do, but they're going to have more recordings because the Twitter space.

[00:13:31] It's not great for listening to a recording. They do record some of them, but it's still a pain. You can't even set a, you have to set like a reminder for each one. It's not great. They still get a lot of people listening to it. They're showing up daily and there's a lot of people showing up daily and doing the work.

[00:13:46] And I think that they are going to continue to do that. And I think they'll be able to, to grow the listenership over time by making it a lot easier to act. At least I hope so, because if they can't do that, then Twitter space. Well, who knows, maybe Twitter space has improves. There is that possibility.

[00:14:02] There's

[00:14:03] great tweet at Elon Musk and he'll handle

[00:14:05] it. He's yeah, I'm sure he'll get his features. And if you have anything to get a problem with your Tesla's same thing. Yes. Just tweet them. I'll put Twitter thread. He'll he'll get right on it. So full disclosure. Do you have

[00:14:18] any of these? I do. I have one of these and yeah, that's it right now.

[00:14:23] I am still looking to maybe pick up another price, definitely moved a little faster than I anticipated, you know, it's, it feels like that's been happening to me and some of these projects recently, but that's a good thing. I'd say if you're yeah, it

[00:14:37] looks like there are a standard scare scarce, one rare to rare one.

[00:14:42] So there's. Places. I have no clue what these things mean. The art's cool. It looks like a rug with images on it. It's a. I will also say I actually own rug radio pass the membership pass. I picked up one of those for fun. I was like, yeah. Why not press on that is 0.059 as I'm talking about it. Now that

[00:15:00] is another affordable option here to look at.

[00:15:03] I don't know. Count that as the same project or not, but I think it's worth looking at both these and I wouldn't jump immediately necessarily you know, look for a good one. So the, some of the differences in the scarce and rare attributes there, they will, they will yield different or. The more rare ones will yield more of the rug tokens each day.

[00:15:26] So there is that if you think that you will be holding these longer, you know, I, you know, getting more 10, 20% more per day would be worth it. But you know, that's the biggest difference I believe other than the rarity itself.

[00:15:40] So it's kind of funny. I picked up the. The membership pass. Cause I was going to potentially fill out a info for submitting our podcasts, like as a feed to syndicate there.

[00:15:50] And then I was like, oh no, we're not doing this live. And I was like, oh, I just want to syndicate episodes. We'll do a different intro outro. Would you be up for that?

[00:15:56] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. All right.

[00:15:59] Well, if you're listening in the future on rock radio, here's, here's where it happened. All right. So I'll put that on the list, but I I'm not alive person.

[00:16:07] I just want to talk about what I wanna talk.

[00:16:08] All right. Should we move on to our topic? So the

[00:16:12] topic web three verse web two, just to set the stage web two, we're essentially talking about the macro social layer of the internet. Web one was the like, Hey, let's put up a bunch of brochures that can be accessed on line that map over IP addresses and that whole like initial web.

[00:16:31] And then we get the social layer of the web is at least how. Kind of looked at web two as a, as a macro idea. And then web three is the property layer applied to all things on the interweb with essentially the blockchain running to oversimplify it in, in the background as opposed to the social layer.

[00:16:50] So when we talk about apps, applications, like it is any, and all things that you're interacting with through that kind of web interface. And that's kind of where I'd sort of start the main high-level. If I can climb up to the ceiling. Social layer versus property layer.

[00:17:07] Where do you take it? That's a good way of putting it.

[00:17:10] You know, I've always thought of web two as basically giving users the option to, to interact in some way, you know, it gave users the option to comment, to, to post, to do all these things. And before that, as you said, it was mostly reading brochures. And I think now we've got that property level, you know, maybe another aspect of it is the potential to earn.

[00:17:30] In this, in this, you know, as we've talked about it in kind of the metaverse, as opposed to just earning online in a digital fashion, I think this is a different thing you're earning from in a digital economy. That's that is more natively, digital, digital than just something that has been sort of ported over from maybe shopping in the real world to shopping online.

[00:17:52] Now that's a much more. To sort of usage of of the web, I think, or of, of the internet. Although, you know, because the shopping is basically the user interacting with it in some way, but it's never, you know, you're not owning anything digital. You're not you're not really caring about digital property in any way there.

[00:18:11] Yeah. You have a note in here, a big difference being central is. Usually cited as a crucial differentiator, which is like, it kind of makes me smile a little bit, because I would say for the majority of web three applications, they aspire toward decentralization. It's certainly in their roadmap, but make no mistake at all.

[00:18:36] They aren't there yet. That's not to say that they're not going there and then direction. Whereas web two is inextricably locked into. To a centralized governing board of acts, a CEO that owns this, a founder that owns this many shares of public market. You name it, but you know, you can follow the money.

[00:18:55] So to speak back to a deciding body like MRX Zuckerberg, or now, and Elon Musk, who's going to own

[00:19:02] Twitter. Yeah. Well I think maybe this is used too much as a differentiator. I think it may be a separate issue because, you know, if you look at something like, I mean, you'd certainly say email is, I don't know, it's maybe it's a protocol, but it's, it's nobody owns this and it's this, you know, this is certainly decentralized and it's not web three at all.

[00:19:24] It's a very old. Idea. And I don't think anyone would even would ever call it web three. And it's still certainly more decentralized than almost anything that we have in web three Bisa maybe even more so than, than Ethereum itself. I mean, there's that, there's more ways to, to always set email, to access email then, and I think even run on the run, the Ethereum network.

[00:19:47] So, you know, there's most of the companies that he said that. Yeah. Using in this web three world are centralized. They're using their private servers. There's a lot of off-chain transactions that are happening that are private to an app or that network. I mean, you know, the biggest, the biggest marketplace in NFTs is open C by a long shot.

[00:20:11] And that is a private company based in New York. You know, that. They abide by us laws. They are a very centralized company. And you know, at the same time they allow you to come and bring your wallet there and bring all your assets. And you don't have to fill out any account registration form to be able to just use the platform itself.

[00:20:32] You can come bring all your property there, use all of their services and not have to have purchased anything on. You don't have to purchase them from open sea itself. You can purchase, you could have purchased them from, from known origin, from a websites, from an artist's website. You could, you know, you could have created it yourself somewhere else and still use the same the same marketplace there.

[00:20:56] And I think that's a real, that's a real differentiator to me is that you can take your assets and move them somewhere else and have the, have them accessible on that.

[00:21:05] It's huge. I mean, there's two pieces there and I'll just start with that first one, which is the, the right to your assets, right? GDPR, the largest, I'd say data, privacy regulations rolled out predominantly through the EU, but having ripple effects does have a clause that lets you legally demand from a company like Facebook to export or right to your data, export your data.

[00:21:29] Now. You can go on and do that and fill out the form. And you're going to get the dumbest shittiest, little XML dump of your stuff that is just wildly unusable. Same thing for Google. Where are you taking that in that proprietarily coded, you know, set up just freaking nowhere. Now, juxtapose that with me, jumping from open C over to looks rare.

[00:21:54] It's instant. There you go. Here. All your NFTs. That's what we see. There you go. Because it's an associated with my wallet in a unique way. They are forced to render it to the universal standard versus the universal standard or the local, I'd say, standard of data architecture. And what have you being owned by that centralized or more of that authority.

[00:22:14] So that is the difference. However, There's a lot of similarities here too, when you're talking about, oh, well, email is open except Gmail has like, you know, X percent of the market search is open except, you know, Google has 80% of the market when you've had these gatekeepers, which look a lot like web two companies, by the way, sometimes it ends up going right back to some of those web two elements.

[00:22:36] I think.

[00:22:37] Yeah. There's certainly some of those elements that, that come through here. I don't know. And, you know, I think a big part of this is there's not as clear a distinction as everyone's maybe making it out to be. Most of these companies are going to be a blend of web to web three. We certainly aren't anywhere close to having a completely.

[00:22:55] Decentralized ability to access the internet. You know, there's ISP or internet service providers are very centralized and, you know, we've got, that's certainly an issue and we've seen that, you know, you can get your access can just be cut off. So, you know, I think we, you know, we're nowhere close to make a fully decentralized internet.

[00:23:15] You're always going to have to use centralized technology of some sort to access these things. And until there's more, I don't see how. We have three to go completely decentralized. You know, we've got, I don't know. We've got a very, we've talked about. A few you know, just a few key players can really bring down almost everything.

[00:23:36] You know, there was a inferior API outage just recently and saw a gas get down to, I think it was about 12 away at the time. So, you know, it's you see how just nothing happens when, when this inferior API goes down because of. Everything and website, you realize upon that that mask included most, most NFTA APIs have it in some way.

[00:23:57] So, you know, we are, I mean, in some ways maybe we're even more centralized at this point because there are, there's so few apps and so few choices of what to use compared to web two, which really has spawned, you know, a number of options and redundancies in the technologies that are used every day.

[00:24:15] Yeah. I mean, you can look at the Apache bug that happened not too long ago where, you know, we, we are all built on like layers and layers and layers stacks of, you know, code API APIs that, that run in the background. A big one that I'd say as far as a difference, and this may seem weird, but it's like more of this like point of entry and authentication where I, in my mind, see web three apps using the wallet as the authentication, you signed something to sort of then render.

[00:24:46] However, they're going to view your assets in their ecosystem. Either look at your permissions for something. Show you what you have access to, to merge or race. In my case, a lot of your, a lot of your assets versus web two, which is, you know, log in, you know, you sort of standard user password or social authentication, Google authentication type of pieces that like log in and verify via social pieces.

[00:25:12] But the funny thing is where it's like, well, wait a minute. Almost every single web three project uses. By the way. Okay. So that's like very much dependent on what to social, but a platform that literally hates its NFT users so much that it reverted the ability for something as basic as a functional check on whether or not you're holding a certain type of NFT.

[00:25:34] So not there yet, right?

[00:25:37] No, definitely not. There. I don't know, you know, I think it's hard to get there. I'm not sure if that is, if it's just a dream that everything can really be fully decentralized. I think it's great to have options and the option to bring your assets to another app when, when, and if you need to.

[00:25:56] And hopefully that it's, it's not they're viable options. It's not just, well, you can take it like you can export your data from Facebook. You can take this in an actual, use it somewhere else. I would say that's the most exciting piece, the idea of the property layer being at the individual at the individual contract layer that I know that I have a wallet address with these assets in it that I can hold and protect and move I'll be at they only are rendered, right?

[00:26:23] Like I can only raise my horses that said, there's nobody else being like, and take your ponies out for a trot here. I'm like, oh, don't mind if.

[00:26:30] So, you know, that

[00:26:33] may and can change. There are many projects looking at what that transportability can look like and how you can partner with these assets and play with them together.

[00:26:41] And it's still very new, but it'll, it'll be, it'll be very interesting, you know, it's like, what would it have looked like in the early days of, you know, the video game world, if you could have brought Mario into battle, you are Sonic the head. And we'll get the, we'll get to find that out,

[00:27:00] maybe. All right.

[00:27:01] We'll see. All right, Andrew.

[00:27:03] Good topic. Good theme. I think we did it afforded project, some news, a little banter, and maybe, maybe we'll even include the audio on this episode. Maybe not. People will test you. All right, we'll get dark and.