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      Valuing NFT Products vs Promises | Project: The HUG Pass

       

       

      Theme: Valuing products vs promises

       

      Transcript

      [00:00:00] The day and all about affordable NFTs. We're talking about the idea of valuing the products versus the promises usually promises in the form of roadmaps. Great things will come when, when moon, when game. All right, Andrew, what do we have in the news?

      [00:00:21] Oh, sorry. I'm still looking through roadmaps here. I am so excited about these, all of these things to come, and this is going to buy everything up.

      [00:00:30] Well, many road maps.

      [00:00:31] Oh, right. Yeah. Let's see in the news. What have we got here? Let's see. Oh, that's right. We've got the PGA tour. They're getting into business with so rare in autograph, the Tom Brady platform on social rare, the very popular company behind some soccer cards. So. I think that we had heard a little bit about this before, about PGA tour exploring this sounds like they are making that leap.

      [00:00:58] So I think we have also talked about in the past, I think sports are up to any great gateway for people to get into this and great exposure. So I think that is what we're seeing here. So good to see. Not real big not a whole lot to discuss there.

      [00:01:13] I just interesting to see how the different sports gravitate toward a different different platforms. And. You know, autograph trying to carve out that, that sports battle, you know, I see some others in there, you know, where we've mentioned the, the Gary V the, the sports pass. There are, you know, constantly like new layers talking about like, you know, which platform you're gonna go with.

      [00:01:35] And there's definitely, like, as we talked about in the last one, like layer ones, vying for the, Hey, come over here or platforms, Hey, come over here. And there's still a lot more sports to be had. I know.

      [00:01:45] Yeah. All right. Oh, this is one. This is interesting. This came about quickly. I think you posted this one shared this one with us. You want to.

      [00:01:54] So the latest theory craze. So coming those ENS numbers, email addresses, I'm embarrassed. I still don't have one. Looked at it, but we talked about like, would it make sense to go buy some ether dresses, but recently this craze of four digit number Ethereum. So, you know, 8, 6, 7, 9, or a 5, 5, 5, 5 dot eith.

      [00:02:18] You realize that when you buy a domain, ENS is also going to.

      [00:02:21] be opening up sub domains, which means if you have, you know, board 8, 8, 6, 7, 5, you could get, you know, eight. That digit number, as well as moon bird dot or whatever, the blue chip I say in quotes and Ft that you have as a domain, right? Cause you can then set those up.

      [00:02:42] And so it became this whole branding brand brush where people buying up all of those digits, which drove up a hilarious amount of sales, the floor price for four digit again. Hovering around 0.5 Eve, but let's certainly lower before a bunch of people realize that subdomains exist.

      [00:02:57] Yeah. I think it is, you know, I can see the convenience of if you have one of the, the only 10,004 digit numbers, you know, it is easier to remember, but you know, there are, there often are other names that you can use that are. give me not as easy to remember as four digits, but maybe more meaningful a, you know, like a word.

      [00:03:16] And I know there's a lot of talk about computers can always recognize the numbers, no matter what language you're in. I'm not sure, you know, based on my experience with writing code, there's not a lot of worry that. Letter a lot, a lot of concern on my part that the letters are going to stop being recognized anytime soon, or that most code is going to shift away from the English language.

      [00:03:42] That's the way it is done. And I see it kind of trending more and more towards that overtime. So not too worried about letters going away and it plays up numbers overall. So it is interesting. I think it's kind of a trend. There's a nut, there's so many options out there, you know, as you can see with dot coms, we don't see that.

      [00:04:00] 1 7 3, 2 it.com or it, maybe that is a great one, but I don't think that most number four digit numbers are, are really highly valued.com domains.

      [00:04:12] I go get, I don't want to even say it cause someone will scoop it and try to sell it to me. I'm not not saying anything about any domains I'm thinking about, but I'm going to buy some units. I'm going to get around to it. Cause it seems like who knows, you know, what, what begins to go next? And yeah, I

      [00:04:27] Yeah, that is one that we've mentioned in the past. It's when to do, when gas is low, the price for these is I think it's 0.05 or something. It's the price is very low per year. A point a one, I think it is for anything over four digits. The, and you can do a few years at once. The, the gas is often the most expensive part.

      [00:04:47] So watch that gas, if you are going for any ENS domains,

      [00:04:51] Yeah, for sure. I gotta say like hats off to the ENS app because I'm on there right? now. And it shows you ease plus gas. Like it's so transparent and by the way,

      [00:05:03] Not just in your wallet, on, in their app, they actually tell you this. It's it's great. It's great. It means they're actually even telling you what gas to use and it's an accurate amount of, that's often an issue that the gas is you've been estimated correctly by the contract. This is showing it to you ahead of time making it very transparent, how much you're paying and not telling you at the last minute, when you're one click away from, from accidentally hitting.

      [00:05:30] Yes. Oops. By the way, gas is going to cost you to eat right now.

      [00:05:33] Yeah, sorry. Yeah. I mean, hilariously a gas right now.

      [00:05:38] as I'm speaking $6. So like, you know, reasonable.

      [00:05:44] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to go, try to guess what, what George is about to buy.

      [00:05:49] I just bought it. I bought mostly stable that. And because gas was so ridiculously low, I was like, I got to go. So I'm going to be mostly stable

      [00:05:58] He knew I was gonna

      [00:05:59] I, yeah, I can't trust you because you would do it for the joke and I'd have to respect the heck out of you for doing it. And then I have to pretend like I didn't want it yet.

      [00:06:06] Secretly be frustrated. So I know, I know the game I'm playing with you.

      [00:06:09] Oh yeah. You play like, no, no, no. You want to just let that expire.

      [00:06:13] Well, anyway, what do we get here next on our news list? We've got, oh, cool cats. Yeah. I think this is kind of funny. For full disclosure, I do have a cool cat. I've had it for a long time. But they are now scouting for a new CEO. They're using like eight. It seems like they're using a very, I don't know what, like exact search kind of firm.

      [00:06:36] It seems very not the way an NFT. Companies should be finding their CEO. I don't know exactly what the right way is. Maybe this will end up working. It just seems so traditional to go that way. And if you can't, there's,

      [00:06:52] there's a relatively small number of people that could understand NFTs enough to to, to bring this product, to turn this project around. I'm not sure it's about. Not already in the web three space, but maybe that's what they will end up fighting. We'll see where it goes. Yeah, I'm still holding that cat.

      [00:07:08] You know the prices have come down a bit, the funk bounced around last night. Well, I think there were about five and a half floor, so, so they that's one that they have the prices really come down after they released their project or the product. I'm sorry. So we'll get, we'll get into that a little bit more.

      [00:07:23] There's a reason I, I left that in or put that in the news here.

      [00:07:27] Yeah, it's interesting. You realize that, you know, these, you know, NFT projects are actually, in some cases when they have this type of, you know, bankroll behind them, kind of like tech companies, right. As much as we want to pretend that this is like web three, all new, like, and some level, this is a tech company.

      [00:07:43] And if the company isn't performing based on the stock price or the, I guess, floor price, then maybe, you know, you, you have to think about how a CEO can come in and drive value for, for stakeholders, shareholders. Hold their holders.

      [00:07:57] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's, you know, if they are tech startups in many ways, you know, and it's a different, just a different realm of, you know, how they're trying to make it successful. It's not, it's, it's, it's shifted not completely different. I would say.

      [00:08:10] This next article is hilarious. I think if I had read this title a year ago, I'd be like, what is going on in the world and Binance to help finance Elon Musk's 44 billion Twitter acquisition. You know, I don't know what to make of it. I I'll be honest. There are a number of things that concern me about Binance as a network.

      [00:08:30] And I don't know if I would choose it as a backer or a part of trying to turn Twitter into what I think it could be, should be for, you know, connecting the humans. But I don't know. What do you, what are you seeing? This one?

      [00:08:46] Yeah, it's an interesting group. It looks like this was, I don't know how exactly is now, but it looks like it's Sequoia, capital fidelity, Binance. Some others involved. Let's see bill Andreessen Horowitz has got 400 million Binance with 500 million. Clay was 800 million. So they had to bring a lot of money together here to get this, to get this deal done.

      [00:09:11] And there was a lot of talk about how that was going to happen and finance you know, finance has come in to other projects or to other other deals with a lot of money sort of out of nowhere. It's not always, I would say it's not often everybody's first choice but they do have deep pockets and it's probably better than some of the alternatives, especially as people are more aware of, of where that money of where some people's money's coming from, there are definitely various Let's see, I dunno, investment firms that, you know, I don't think would be suitable for this in any way.

      [00:09:46] I'm not sure if finances am I correct in saying that they already own Forbes or they own a significant chunk of.

      [00:09:53] I think that's right. Yeah. I don't know what, what percent of it but you know, getting back to like why we care about Twitter on a NFT podcast at a high level is the obvious integrations that they're already doing for verifying. Profile pics. It is the use case of profile pics in the web to web three layer bridge.

      [00:10:13] And so, you know, paying attention to how I guess NFT friendly investors might be is is of note and, you know, things like doge coin pumped as a result for a small period of time and questions of how Twitter is going to make that migration towards it. You know, when, when Elon Musk changes his Twitter profile to a board just to like, make a joke and then come back, you know, prices, skyrocket, speculation goes wild and now even more.

      [00:10:40] So I think his, his power to like make a joke, manipulate a market and maybe drive you nuts or thrilled, depending on what side of the trade you're on is only going to increase. And so I think we're going to be talking a lot more Twitter when it comes to that.

      [00:10:54] Yeah. And you know, to be, I think it's still the number one communication platform for, for, for NFT collectors at this point, you know, none of these messaging platforms that I've seen have gained any real traction. So

      [00:11:09] This court decide, which is a uniquely different type of

      [00:11:12] Yeah, right? Yeah. The publicly facing one, I would guess.

      [00:11:15] It's yeah, it's more private discords even if they are publicly available, nobody's just stumbling onto them. You've got to, it's an act. It is, it is active management dealing with this court.

      [00:11:29] When are we going to get a better NFT, friendly discord? Like there's enough money for it,

      [00:11:34] That's a good question. Yeah. Are we

      [00:11:37] Yeah. I mean, that is some of the stuff that I hope that, you know, we start seeing built because it is it's really overwhelming whelming to, to deal with this court. It's not really meant for this. I don't think that anyone should, should be in dozens and dozens of discords and have that be as the only way that you can keep up to date with.

      [00:11:57] These projects, you know, either that, or I guess hopes that they post it on Twitter and you're able to find it there. I mean, it's, it's really difficult, you know, most of them do not have a, there's not really a open communication protocol for web three.

      [00:12:11] I'll make a prediction for one year from today, there's going to be a very strong NFT first discord, that competitor that there has to be. Every time I clicked to authenticate my wallet from a third party app and then bounce back in I'm like, if you don't think this is a massive security hole. you don't understand how the internet works.

      [00:12:33] Holy cow, I always get nervous every time I do it. And I'm like, I double check the URL. I'm like, I'm clicking this button.

      [00:12:39] from discord to another app. Then verify with your Metta mascot's extension on your browser, but yet

      [00:12:50] Where's the

      [00:12:51] holes here. I don't see any flaws, but

      [00:12:53] Air tight. That's an end to end encryption except the no, no, that's the opposite of end to end encryption. Yeah, there's a couple issues with that. I feel

      [00:13:03] Yeah, yeah. That there's still some problems there.

      [00:13:07] again, see your episode about running around the internet with a hot wallet. Just be careful. Leslie want to mention here? A couple of airdrops the Quincy Bendel is an NFT liquidity platform. So it has, they have an airdrop right now for people that have been active on open sea, then I don't know, there were a few different ways that you could qualify there. So. Worth going on and checking that's bend Dow got XYZ.

      [00:13:34] You will have that in the show notes and also hop exchange. That's a exchange and bridge protocol. They just also announced an airdrop. So if you have used that one at all, it's worth checking there. So these are things that we've mentioned. We've mentioned the past. Things to keep an eye on. See, I think we're going to see a lot more airdrops coming.

      [00:13:55] So if you haven't taken a look at some of the, the various lists of airdrops potential airdrops come in. I think we've got that in a note somewhere, but worth revisiting and and trying to, to qualify for some upcoming airdrops too. I think it, I don't know. It seems like these, these seem to come in batches and it seems like airdrop season is here.

      [00:14:17] Yeah, well, it seems like there's a limited amount of projects that they're airdropping for like UGA specific, but you're saying other ones will show up.

      [00:14:26] So there were, so you've got to go to the, yeah. Well, there's this there's a flash came right. This flash claim right now for you guys. And they have the bend airdrop, which rewards both for what you hold, which is some top tier projects like board apes and then also for open C activity. And I, it, it was

      [00:14:49] Ooh, I just claimed 675. Ben I'm rich.

      [00:14:53] all right. All right. I don't know what Ben is going for, but yeah. It's if they promise the

      [00:14:58] money on the

      [00:14:59] they, they promised huge amounts in the future, then are a huge of rewards in the future.

      [00:15:05] I can stake it and they're in 200% on something. I don't know the value of I'm in it.

      [00:15:10] Hey, he may as well. Right.

      [00:15:11] I think so. All

      [00:15:13] All right. Well, that's all our news. I think we've got a project. What do you have for us, George?

      [00:15:19] We do. I got to shout out this one to the what did the JPEGs no, I, how am I blanking on it? The priceless, overpriced JAG, overpriced JPEGs podcast, where I heard about this one, the hug pass and the founder Randi Zuckerberg. You'll recognize the last name as in sister of mark Zuckerberg. And this project is the hug pass collection, which is a community focused on finding and supporting female led NFT projects.

      [00:15:55] They have an incubator they've got, you know, sort of active discord and a promise of this community to grow over time, to be a friendly, welcoming place for the sort of the next. The next holders, people getting interested in NFTs. It is a, you know, kind of cartoon style, I'll say, but this is part of that sort of membership utility.

      [00:16:16] We, we keep coming back to these pieces where we see membership utility being a safer place to bet the current floor of these, I believe is it. Point zero eight. So certainly affordable. I would say they're doing a phased launch. I think there's going to be 15,000 in total. They've launched the first, I believe it's 5,000, right?

      [00:16:40] 6,000, sorry, 6,000 right now. And then yeah, there's going to be 15,000 total. So there's going to be more phases of this. They're offering sort of the, you know, the common things you'd expect of future perks either. I'll come back to the founder though. Randi Zuckerberg. No. She spent 10 years at Facebook.

      [00:16:56] She knows her stuff. She's like, certainly on the artistic front, you know, done things as a musician, she's been on Broadway and produce things. She's run groups and teams. She's like kind of been bitten by the NFT bug. It seems and out she tends to do things at, at a high level. Proficiency. So, you know, that's kind of like when a, why this membership versus another one I've already explained in a previous episode about my my investment bias, probably toward a female led projects.

      [00:17:27] As you look at, you know, who the next million people joined. And FTE communities are going to be and purchasing. So, you know, I think there's going to be good alpha on if you're, if you're in that community the next, most successful female artists leading an empty projects.

      [00:17:44] Oh, yeah, I haven't, I've not looked into this one too much yet. I know you've mentioned it in discord. So I've been meaning to check it out. I'm going to have to go look into this a little bit more.

      [00:17:53] Yeah. Some something to look at, but I, I liked this one. I've full disclosure. I don't have one. I am watching the, watching it and pretty soon I'll be able to announce that my, my new beef address works just in case you want to send me a tip at any point, because it won't be alphanumeric. I'm going to get a really NS address.

      [00:18:10] There you go. All right.

      [00:18:13] Alrighty. Okay. So that's the project next up our theme.

      [00:18:18] Yeah, let's get into it. Yeah. Or should we just promise that it's going to come later and keep

      [00:18:23] we're going to get to it. We're going to, so we have this whole. And so how do we value a product versus a promise? What are the difference between those things and defining them? And just at a high level, roadmaps are paved in promises, things we will do develop come up with in the future. And that is essentially what drives a lot of price speculation.

      [00:18:48] Now, this is not unique to NFT. Anytime you look at the price to earnings ratio of a stock, you were about to buy. That is what people are doing. They're betting on the multiple of how much they think in the future. This thing is going to be valued at there's something different though. I feel like with NFTs, You know, the there's the actual product.

      [00:19:09] What I get today, you know, is it the value of the art, the access, the game play the community, right? Because you obviously need a new discord channel, like, you know an extra hole in the head. But that is kind of how I see this. How do you look at the idea of valuing the product versus the promise?

      [00:19:28] Yeah. Well, I think it's, it's, it's tough to knit desolate value right now. I mean, I think right now we're seeing that promises are, are valued much higher than the actual product. It's, it's, it's almost like being a pre-revenue company in the more of the.com or the web to sort of landscape. You know, if you don't, actually, if you can just say that it, that you've got this huge addressable market and that it will be big once you are trying to actually get revenue, that's a lot easier than actually trying to get the revenue and.

      [00:20:00] Not being able to get it. It's a lot easier to draw that line. And it seems like that's sort of what we're doing as you know, as collectors right now is that we're saying like, whoa, they're talking about building a metaverse let's, you know, let's buy this up to, to eight E and now it's here. Okay. Let's get sell down to three, Ethan you know, an example of this recently, and it's not as like metaverse, but cool cats mentioned this earlier because they, they had.

      [00:20:28] They've got a game out. It's not even their full game. It's actually just the sort of reveal for the cool pets, but it took them a while to get out. And they wanted to make sure it was done. Right. And you know, maybe that was, you know, they, that was part of it, but it was somewhat slow in the release. It is there it's usable.

      [00:20:46] I have checked it out. It's it's got great graphics. It works well. And the country, the price continued as light, especially for those cool pet. I've seen the, I think the price is now under well under one eith. And you know, that was something that was up at over one and a half or for some considerable amount of time ahead of the game release.

      [00:21:06] Once it's here the price has dropped and you know, there is something right now to. Thinking that these problems that are going to be much bigger than they are. And then when they see what is actually developed with the product, it's a little bit of a letdown, I think. And you know, it also stops people from saying, well, that next thing is going to be what, what really provides the catalyst for the price to move here.

      [00:21:29] So important to see that, because I think, I mean, both of us, I would say maybe. I will say from the I perspective here, I, when I currently, you know, look back at where I was like last year as a collector, I overvalued future developments. I thought that, you know, that, that new innovation, that new game would just be the thing that completely shifted the value proposition, as opposed to the reality, which, you know, oftentimes they have to build up expectation in marketing.

      [00:22:01] It's their job. They need to drive this hype. In earnest, like that's actually a really bad way to try to build a game or a tech or product feature. The ideal way is to find a small group of customers, build it slowly, manage expectation and develop over time. You know, the idea that you're building in public works for some things, but in other cases, it creates this, Hey, Of production saying like, all right, this next one is going to be the product that changes everything.

      [00:22:34] And it's all on this next launch. Trust us, save to this date. And you know, the existing market, I think, is getting a bit wiser. And I think some of the reason maybe that we have some winners winning extremely right now and some long tail there is that. That ability of a smaller project to say, no, no, no, we have this, this next development coming.

      [00:22:55] And that's what our evaluation is based on. People are beginning to realize that like, even when it shows up, like how good is this game possibly going to be? How will that actually help the value of the product? Right. Cause that's what we're talking. The value of the product and how will that increase?

      [00:23:10] Because the thing doesn't generate revenue the same way. If I'm going back to the PE ratio of a company of saying like, oh, we're going to add this new feature, which by the way, generates revenue sometimes. Yes. Sometimes no, if you're talking about internal tokens and pieces, but it's becoming to me more important to value the burden, hand the product.

      [00:23:31] And, you know, we, we keep bringing these up. These projects that have the community value saying, all right, here's like the membership, which ironically your, your value, this is more stuff being dropped to your opportunity in the white list of new projects. But there's, you know, that's, that's something I can, I can count on, you know, that is a bit more.

      [00:23:52] And then prior to that, you know, we were looking at. The product verse promise the product of access to certain things like w GMI a Wagner, right? W G m.io, which is able to track our portfolios. And we're like, all right, cool. There's a use. I get the product right now while they may promise things like I can use it right now.

      [00:24:13] So would you say you're beginning to have a bit more of the bias for the product, or are you just trying to get savvier on the roadmap, paved and promise.

      [00:24:21] I don't know that I have a bias towards the product. I mean, things that are. They're good. And being used, I guess, you know, there is a, maybe I'm looking at those in a different light now and, you know, hoping that there is some BI-LO opportunities because it doesn't seem like the market is currently valuing those.

      [00:24:40] I mean, it's maybe it's, you know, we're, we're valuing growth more than we're we're valuing the that's where we're, or I guess we're valuing expected growth and There are tools, like you said, that are being used. There are products that are coming out of these. And right now that isn't I dunno, it's not good for the price, but maybe those are worth looking at in a different light and saying, you know, I think that this is going to change at some point and people are going to realize that That those promises are somewhat empty, not leading anywhere.

      [00:25:11] And that some of these other projects are actually developing things that are in use and, and don't look like they're just going to go away because the price drops in other collections.

      [00:25:21] Yeah.

      [00:25:22] maybe another way to say I'm beginning, I'm becoming more skeptical of roadmap promises that are essentially wall-to-wall. We're going to build an insular little world where these things can operate. And finally, you can, you know, go on to this, you know, very basic gameplay and watch your thing tumble around, like, okay.

      [00:25:42] Like, just be honest, like, look at your current uses of the internet of games. Like what kind of games do you actually play right now? And how does that really map to something that's like, all right. Here's like an adventure game where you can like wander around and like, do I, what I do that. Would others do that with the people holding this and valuing this, do that?

      [00:26:03] Or are you just creating something? That's, that's sort of out there. So I get nervous with the walled garden and, you know, public companies being like, you know, we're going to build our metaverse and everyone's going to come here as opposed to elsewhere. I'm more attracted to. The way that they're integrating with other projects with it, they're opening up and delivering value you know, in, in ways that can connect to, to other players in other ways.

      [00:26:28] Yeah, I think that's a good way of putting it. You know, in general, things that are looking to build more and not necessarily say, like, come here and this'll be the end of, I don't know, this will kind of be the destination. That's I dunno, that's expecting a lot of your project and people to, to react in that way.

      [00:26:48] I think what we're seeing. Most of the most successful things are really bringing together projects that are bringing people in projects together in different ways. And not necessarily this is going to be the end ecosystem. Although I guess the the, the AP ecosystem is, is the, the big example to that.

      [00:27:08] And it's hard to argue with their success so far.

      [00:27:11] Well, see, you know, like I think, you know, we're a year into the adventure and it's, it's grown very quickly and a lot of the sort of, you know, success of overall NFT. And some narratives are like, all right, it's hanging on. You go to the largest player to like, get, get this right. But, you know, we have a towering roadmap of promises of things that that will be built, but there is the inherent product, which is almost like this cultural symbol of, you know, access elite.

      [00:27:45] Tastes type of brand you like you're buying a Gucci bag. Like what did you actually buy? You bought a bag with a Gucci logo on it. And sometimes that it is able to, you know, Polish and promote this brand in such a way that like the sheer fact of holding and owning it is, is the, is the narrative. And I think, and a T's have probably done the best on that idea of product value, the brand, the social proofing.

      [00:28:11] And showcasing of, Hey, look, you know, I was smart and bought this thing at this time, but there's a, there's a lot more to be developed. And then, you know, inside the game world, I have more and more experience playing and watching and FTE games go through life cycles. And it's brutal, right? The current question in the, the peg Etsy world, it's like that, the price of this, if you want to, if you want a funny joke, like take a look at that, that price it's like, well below 1 cent now, And the hope is that there is in their roadmap, which is, you know, fully, fully mapped that there's there's a killer feature coming that will like turn things around.

      [00:28:50] I'm rooting for it. You know, I'm, I'm still on the platform, but, you know, it becomes, it becomes hard to say like, all right, if your core fundamentals right now aren't necessarily working, like will a killer feature necessarily fix that, maybe. I actually have a question for you. Have you ever seen a project that was had launched right. Maybe had a good launch then went through that low, right? That, that post-launch low, like the price taper down kind of hovered and then launched a new game feature drop or something. Then brought it to the next level, besides I'll say board aches, right?

      [00:29:27] Because the Nutanix and everything, the syrup like serum, everything needed to sort of work. Does an extra drop. Have you seen another project where, oh, you know, the, the roadmap delivered and suddenly the price responded and like, oh my gosh, this is the.

      [00:29:39] So as he started saying that one example that comes to mind is the project recently that we've talked about. Yeah. A couple of times recently and they have a discord and they'd say, I don't know. They, they give a w w I don't know exactly what you call it, but about five different NFT reports each week.

      [00:29:59] That was one that was down. I understand it like a 0.05 or even under floor at one point. They've been launched with this idea. Of providing value to the members in the way of, you know, making it an alpha group and getting information about different projects. Last, I looked the floors back up over 0.7 and they have plans to launch a, a new 10 K PFP from that.

      [00:30:25] So that, you know, it's a much different scale obviously than board apes. It's still a big turnaround from 0.05 to 0.7 ish. And that is one where they actually launched with, I don't know how the, I, sorry, I should say, I don't know what the plan was when they launched. I know when they relaunched, they actually had this roadmap of, of trying to make it into an alpha group.

      [00:30:46] And it seems like it is succeeding there. I can't think of. Yeah of a larger project that has been able to sort of revive itself or turn things around on with the launch of a, of a, of a game or a project like that. You know, most of these, I would say, have we seen a lot of projects that have released more you know, released a new collection or a new game and.

      [00:31:10] And drop governance token a, you know, like an extra piece

      [00:31:14] But that's. Yeah, I let's see. I mean, so cool cats, you know, that's, they've at least things that they, you know, they've had this in their roadmap and it really hasn't worked out. So then we've got something like a zookeeper. The zoo you with their beams. That seems like it wasn't, I don't, I know they just had to reveal for those beans today.

      [00:31:35] I don't know what their reaction is, both in price or what people are saying, but I know people are disappointed with the deans initially. And it seems like this one where, you know, they, people are much more excited about what is to come in the future then than what is actually here. So that's, that has not worked out

      [00:31:51] a women had a similar launch where they had a new drop and like people were underwhelmed the price of. Maybe art box, like, is that a comparable, but that's more of like these like networks where they're just like, here's our ecosystem. People, artists are going to launch like.

      [00:32:06] Yeah. I don't know that. I would say that that's a. I don't know. I'm not sure that I I can think of many like that. You know, it is tough and, you know, that's, I think it's something to keep in mind is, you know, how how maybe fickle collectors are, and they will move on to the next thing, if it doesn't work.

      [00:32:23] And I don't know that they're often coming back because the, to that project to give it much of a chance of success, you know, right now you've got either get it right away, you know, get success right away, or it's going to be a tough, tough battle.

      [00:32:35] It's an important note that it, you know, we had to struggle so much to look at it and. Section is a exception is not the rule. So if you are sort of waiting or betting on like a project with you know, th the killer feature, the killer roadmap promise, you know, just look back as to like, when in the past, has this worked for a project to, to revive it.

      [00:32:58] And I think at this point, I've like, I've, I've watched enough roadmaps kind of go through and I've watched the price response. And the price response is always heavier on the expectation than on the executed delivery. I have to say can't happen, but gambler wise. Hmm. Interesting.

      [00:33:14] I agree. I would say that most most of these, most of the time, it'd be better to sell the, sell the news or even sell the rumor then then hold through it. Unfortunately.

      [00:33:24] Alright. Interesting discussion. Thanks for sharing that. So you out there.