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      How big is the NFT Market? | Project: Illuvium

      • Less than 500k monthly active users on OpenSea
      • Value of all digital art estimated at $2.8 billion
      • Over 4 million on waitlist for the “coming soon” coinbase marketplace
      • Early-adopter stage

       

      Transcript

      [00:00:00] Today on all about affordable NFTs. How big is the NFT market? The answer 47. No,

      [00:00:09] that's not exactly. I think the spot on. Yeah. Good to talk to again, George.

      [00:00:16] Yeah. So we're going to cover some news. We're going to cover some projects. We'll probably remember to do all of those things inside of here, but just to start, we've got little oh, here, the us government connects North Korea hacking group with last month, 600 million Ronan exploit.

      [00:00:34] As you remember, Ronin is the the currency under lying, the Axiom infinity game along with SLP, which is the earned revenue. There was a problem in there where frankly, they got us for all of their ethos that people were holding. They're going to be made whole because there's a lot of money floating around.

      [00:00:54] So I don't know if there's anything else on this interesting North Korea. Yeah.

      [00:00:57] There had been some rumors that it was probably a state actor around the time, just because there was so little information coming out about it. And 600 million is kind of a large number to not, to have a lot more discussion around.

      [00:01:11] So not too surprising if if you had kind of read some of that, the Lazarus group they'd been known crypto hackers in the past. So. You know, interesting. There's about 450 million tied to one address specifically unclear where the other, I don't know, 150 million or so is all right. Well, anyway, let's see, we've got the next bit of news here.

      [00:01:35] We've got news of Coinbase NFTs. Cool. It sounds like Coinbase in a P is coming out. Right, George,

      [00:01:41] stop it. You're you keep teasing me with this and I'm done. I'm done with it. It's never going to happen. Not going to. Never gonna make it.

      [00:01:49] So they've got a three-part. Film series coming out with the board API club.

      [00:01:54] They did, they announced this didn't seem to be huge news in the board. Ape world is bigger news in the Coinbase world. Interestingly in quick days, it did slip in there that their NFT marketplace is coming very, very soon. So, you know, they have a different scale than some of us. But you know, maybe that who knows what that means, but they are, they're at least finding a way to put themselves in the conversation with board apes at this point.

      [00:02:23] Yeah. I mean, they've got the wallet app, which I think is actually much bigger than folks realize because it's tied to the mobile. And it's tied to your ability, frankly, one of the best and easiest on-ramps for turn and Fiat into crypto at, at low costs and low friction. And you know, even knowing what I know, I still use the Coinbase to my private wallet, you know, conveyor belt.

      [00:02:51] What do you use actually to get your, to get Fiat's or are you just no longer. Moving stuff that way

      [00:02:58] yet. I haven't done that in awhile. Move Fiat to crypto. Got a, got a good, a good amount of crypto at this point and move around and crypto much more often. But that is a good point though, that, that they do have that wallet.

      [00:03:13] And they do have a very long pave and see that you've just made a note. They have a very long waiting list for their NFT marketplace and heard it's as big as 4 million people at this point. So you know, they, and the Coinbase NFT marketplace, I believe it will. Some point, you know, it is becoming a running joke around you know, around the NFG world of, because it has been such a long time and especially as fast as things move in in crypto world.

      [00:03:45] Yeah. Well, I I'm not holding my breath and I'm moving, I'm moving on from, from hopes to sort of make making other other plans. When it comes, hopefully it'll move the market because that's a lot of people that enter into it. Once you get an idea of how big the NFT market is and isn't we'll get into that a little bit more later on in the episode.

      [00:04:07] Next step, next story we've got here. We've got Lego coming into the metaverse. They've partnered with epic games and they are looking to make a child friendly. Metaverse you know, so I think this will be more in line with I'm not sure if it, it roadblocks or The other one craft Minecraft.

      [00:04:29] That's actually the one that I'm more familiar with, they know, but there, and I think from what I know, a Minecraft is much more actually kid safe than roadblocks is as a platform. So I'm sure they see that and see an opportunity. They're so interesting that they are getting into this Lego.

      [00:04:46] Does, you know, it seems like it would work with a lot of the the Minecraft style of building with blocks. They could use. You know, use a Lego like block to, to build in the world and partnering with epic certainly gives them a, a big leg up again, getting started here.

      [00:05:05] Yeah. Well, we'll see you know, talking about this next generation of just fully normalized to ownership and creation in on online ecosystems.

      [00:05:16] I actually liked that partnership. I like that. Groups like that, getting together as opposed to saying like, yeah, let's trust mark Zuckerberg with our, with our kids in the metaverse, which is not the first line I'd maybe go for and in, in my bed.

      [00:05:30] Yeah, absolutely. You know, I do think that like has has a good reputation and we'll work to uphold that you know, with a metaverse that is actually safe for kids.

      [00:05:43] Yeah. I mean, in epic games, obviously that's the creator behind 14. Which, you know, say what you will like it's guns and whatnot, but they have really brought the multiplayer battle Royales to the foreground. And also I respect the heck out of that massive donation in aid to Ukraine the other month, like totally, I think it was over 80 million.

      [00:06:02] So hats off and respect. They know how to manage youth in an ecosystem on.

      [00:06:08] Absolutely. All right. One more news item here. We've got another company entering the metaverse and other, a fashion apparel company under armor. This time I, a gear I'd say, but a Nike Adidas. And now under armor, all very active or sorry, Nike.

      [00:06:28] Adidas are already very active in NFTs and the metaverse and now we're seeing under armor also getting into the space. So, you know, as we've been saying, you know, I think this is just going to become, every company has some sort of metaverse play at some point and it won't be such news, but you know, at this point we're still, you know, I think it is still somewhat headline grabbing when when these companies do make plans

      [00:06:51] yeah.

      [00:06:52] In this Tweet. And here the Nike recently now 6.7 million Robox roadblocks players had visited the virtual Nike land store talking about attention. And you're talking about attention in these digital ecosystems. So brands are definitely waking up cause they realize where the next generation of consumers are spending time and might be making.

      [00:07:15] All right. Well, let's move on to our affordable project. George, you've got another one for us today. And what do you have?

      [00:07:23] So for change, it's not soccer. How about that?

      [00:07:28] Well, wait, so it's gotta be a stable, stable base game, right?

      [00:07:33] Kind of, but no, not even as the Lindsay's. I've been watching and you've probably heard this before.

      [00:07:39] Alluvium for, for awhile. It's kinda like then in, you know, I got a lot of stuff on the site in the side view Ramir but essentially, you know, I can dedicate like many, many hours to the lore of what's being built around Eluvia, but they have technically not launched as a full game. They are going to be a think of it as what the next.

      [00:08:00] Brand of Pokemon will be in the metaverse and that's most exciting implementation. And they've got a tremendous discord. Right now they don't have anything in the NFTE land that frankly I would be getting into, but they do have a token and it's that sort of dangerous game of token defense. The the game, but you know, right now, just looking at the overall just size internally, they've got I believe something like, you know, 42,000 folks on YouTube, 290,000 on Twitter, and then what they called survivors 190, 4,000 in there.

      [00:08:42] So they've been under development for a while now, the sort of reason I'm bringing it up now they've got Eluvia island, V I L V. Total. And, you know, you, you can look at the price and move around, but I think the play right now is to potentially look at getting in at whatever your size is for some of that Eluvia token.

      [00:09:02] Cause they have just launched they're staking V2. And so they're staking V2. Earn yield on that, but also sort of, kind of be ready once. Once the play starts watching and they've got a, a game launcher that's going to come, it's gonna be a desktop downloader, and they've got some amazing graphics and art here.

      [00:09:22] They have a fully doxed team. And they've just, they've been building for a very long time. Look the risks of this, as I've said before, like, you know, when game and you're sort of play this game of like waiting and. But I'll tell you a good time to get in. It's like a team that can execute and finally does launch will, and they do sort of hit part of this, like be able to capitalize on a community, ready to go and look, there's going to be the next Pokemon, the next branded, catch them, breed them, interact in this multi game world.

      [00:09:55] They've got all of the game dynamics really planned out and it's. There's going to be a winner. I don't know if it's this one or not, but it's something that I'm kind of watching the side. What do you see about alluvium from, from where? See.

      [00:10:07] So I've heard this one talked about a lot and you know, I think he gets, I don't know if it's getting a lot of attention, but it's certainly getting mentioned in a lot of NFT circles looking they're looking ahead to what's coming.

      [00:10:21] I, like you said, there's not a ton there for NFTs at this point. So it is kind of playing on the future. That being said, I think it is somewhat overlooked at this point. And you know, if they are able to. You know, to, to make this work, even if it's, you know, I think you have to be, you have to be wary that any of these games are going to run into the same problems as, as we've seen over and over that, they're going to go through a, a good cycle and then maybe run into problems.

      [00:10:50] But I think. If you're aware of that cycle, there is an opportunity here. You know, it would be, I would, if the price does increase by a lot, I would definitely look to maybe at least a move you know, move the original investment out and, you know, then if you are looking to hold long-term you know, that would be the way that.

      [00:11:13] Would look to play this kind of one.

      [00:11:16] Yeah. And they've got some tremendous marketing goals, such as like Guinness book record for largest pot for a game played, but they've got the sign up for the auto Bandler private beta right now. But there's sort of testing and getting an idea of what's going on.

      [00:11:31] So it may be a period of time where the price is low interest is kind of at a, at a point that might make sense to test it out and take a look to see if this might. Something that that takes hold, but obviously, yeah, like there's nothing better than playing with the house's money kind of building on that.

      [00:11:48] I had some other updates that I wanted to throw out there of past projects. One, the red village, they are running active tournaments and I have been playing in them. I've been winning with some of them. I've got a nice guy. He's got like a 50% win rate. He's a little drunk. It was an R for my R one is not performing very well.

      [00:12:07] Mary wind Claus, just saying interesting. I don't know. She's she's just not achieving like, like prior, so I got a Druid doing it and it's actually, you know, it's, I'm, I'm, I'm really excited for them because I feel like I've watched their sort of story unfold for a number of months. But it's, it's That's actually working.

      [00:12:24] It's actually fun. The other one is Pegasi back to stables. He knew I was going to, I didn't talk about soccer stables. So here we go. I guess they have a super fascinating burn mechanics. So this has been the wildest ride. I think I've ever been on for. Peak value and then peak crash. Like it was so aggressive because of the,

      [00:12:49] and you own dose.

      [00:12:51] So I think that's really saying something

      [00:12:53] I've written some waves I've written. Yeah. And I owned a fish. So that's thanks for disclosing. That's great. Sorry,

      [00:13:02] is that a, was that not?

      [00:13:03] I at least I at least took my initial. I follow my own rule. Take the initial investment outside. I did something smart there, but there's a different universe where I made a lot more money, but I still believe in dovish.

      [00:13:14] I'm a. Anyway what happened with Pegasi is they sort of ran up in the price for the, the base currency and then which is called biz. If you want to track it and you can kind of look at a story and it was like crash. So it was up at like 25 cents. And then I was like down at like 0.04 cents.

      [00:13:34] So pretty, pretty epic bottom falling out, which is just the nature of play to earn games that expand and breeding. Right? If the breeding is increased, you can see it every single time that effectively there's no other side of the market and re reason to keep it. What they have done is reasonably rollout and they did this on April 14th.

      [00:13:53] So it's been a little while. So it'd be interesting to take a look at where the market is, have created a burn mechanic for general Pega. So the base peg is. The Pacers that you have to burn to and admins to get a epic and to get a rare, to get a legendary. So they have this sort of, you have to burn more, to get more into a higher tier.

      [00:14:12] That'll let you earn more. So they've actually sort of rearchitected the whole way that the token will be earned and it sort of is going to neutralize this like massive breeding problem that happened where the proliferation of. Very low tier horse. Peggy's got introduced into the market, so I'm optimistic and it might be interesting if you kind of heard me talking about it and take a look at like this inflection point where things are at the Flory, Flory, McPherson, and seeing what's going on there.

      [00:14:43] And one of the tactics might be I'm looking at. Looking at undervalued founding. So, you know, remember the don't buy what you can breed founding and, or potentially the the legendary, which are now are of higher value because they can earn a heck of a lot more than the other ones. So I'm very curious, it's a team that develops and does stuff, but you know, nothing, nothing like seeing dynamics play out right in your backyard and saying hope that works.

      [00:15:11] All right, Andrew, how big is the NFT market go?

      [00:15:17] All right. Well, not very, I would say overall, there we go. Seven. Okay. Oh good. Todd. You know, this was something that I've, I dunno, it came up. It came up recently when I was looking at I guess it was on Twitter and someone was talking about how they're at an NFT event and asking others if they knew how many active users were on, on open sea.

      [00:15:40] And, you know, at this point, you know, everybody seemed to be way off and, you know, there's about 500,000 active monthly users on an open seat. And to put that in some perspective, Instagram has 400 and 545 million monthly active users discord as 121 million. So when you think about the fact that, you know, every NFT project seems to have a discourse.

      [00:16:06] Yeah at most you know, maybe there could even be double if people aren't actively trading, but even if there's a million NFT holder using discord, there, it means there's another 120 million using discord that aren't NFT that they're, aren't using open C on a monthly basis. So this is, you know, it really puts it in perspective how few people.

      [00:16:25] Actively trading NFTs on a monthly basis. And I think that's, it's really important to consider here. You know, there's a lot of talk like, is it over? Is it I shouldn't say a lot of times there's always discussion of, you know, with new, with new technologies of whether, you know, the bubble has been burst, whether, you know, it's, it's all over, whether it was just a fad.

      [00:16:44] And I think, you know, when you looked at this, we're seeing that the numbers are growing, but it's still. It's still quite small. You know, at 500,000 users we're talking about, you know, more like a, you know, a relatively successful iPhone app or mobile app of some sort you know, that's, that's what the numbers are at this point.

      [00:17:05] And granted, you know, Things that have, you know, you have to actually be spending to be an active user, but that's, you know, that's, that's not that hard. Once people get into the crypto the crypto crypto world and have their wallet ready to, to move some crypto around and into NFTs.

      [00:17:25] Yeah. Something like the total active.

      [00:17:28] So you're, I think you're, you're right to look at like monthly active, cause there's like people that maybe got dropped one thing and then like left it alone and like ran away. But it's like anywhere from a million to 1.4 million, but in terms of active wallets, it is so, so small that, yeah, like when we were talking about how like, yeah, the liquidity could be pulled out by one project, because by the way, there's, there's only half a million of us running around with E doing this sort of thing, which you know, is a good reminder that this is still very, very new in terms of an adopted technical.

      [00:18:04] But yeah, there's definitely hype. There's definitely gonna be pullbacks, but I get to say, like, when I hear from, you know, different people in various podcasts and interviews of like how, when they first realized that this is the ownership layer of the web and how excited they got and how they found these communities, it is a type of excitement that I just don't see, like going away.

      [00:18:28] So it's very sticky for the people that get into it and enjoy it. And it kind of like pulls people in, in the same way. I'd say that like it's apt to compare it to a social media platform where it is it's an experience is improved by the, the you know, end of number of nodes in it, right. Extra people in it create extra value.

      [00:18:53] And it accrues in that way. In the same way, I think is true for a lot of these discords and NFT. So there is a, a virality, a K factor here that is positive and seems to be trending up. Though they're going to certainly be dips along the way, but you know, it's hard to argue like the run-up that you saw in 2021, continuing, but I think it can easily be done when you look at again, 3.7 now 4 million, like people on a waiting list.

      [00:19:22] On, you know,

      [00:19:25] the thing I said, the waiting list, the waiting list is now about eight times the size of the number of monthly active users on open. See, that's, that's, that's a lot of people that are waiting to that. And if half of

      [00:19:37] them fall into a coma and say, I don't feel like it, that's still four times the amount of monthly active you four times the amount.

      [00:19:47] Not necessarily maybe liquidity, but certainly individual purchasing, which gives me more hope for some of those longer tail projects. Right? If the folks that were interested in buying the, like the top tens, like, oh, I've got to get my Zuki. I have to get my board ape. Like they would have already done it.

      [00:20:05] I think this is much more about the retail interest of getting into entities in a safe, vetted way. That is not the wild west of openings.

      [00:20:13] Yeah. I mean, I think there is, I mean, I think there are a lot of people that will actually end up on open C after trying out maybe Coinbase and empty, you know, we've seen this happen in the past that you know, it can lead people to to other platforms.

      [00:20:28] But certainly having a I don't know, a safer platform to try it out on initially. We'll make it a little. Easier for people to at least take that first step and understand what it means to own an NFT. And like you said, once you do own it and understand the, the ownership and the, how that plays in.

      [00:20:47] And I think it's so much easier to understand by actually interacting with these. So, you know, I, I do think that Coinbase we'll have we'll have. They big marketplace and a big effect, but I think it will also bring people into the space or into open sea and into some of these other more decentralized, not that open seat is, but these other marketplaces that are maybe not custody such as nifty gateway or Coinbase and make people more willing to try these out after they've had the experience of actually owning one of these in a safe environment.

      [00:21:20] Yeah. I mean, obviously. Super cost-prohibitive. So on the contrary to this, like the MCOMP to saying like, look at Instagram, it's viral. Look at like candy crush is 119 million people. Like frankly, the starting point for NFTs is, can be embarrassingly high for certain projects. However, you know, Solano got listed.

      [00:21:42] I am the first one to say I'm not a huge fan of the salon ecosystem, but as. Projects of higher quality jump onto that platform, you know, like, yeah, you're going to be able to get in quite easily for like under a hundred bucks and play a different type of game and interact there. And so it'll be really you know, it'll be exciting when it happens and we'll do an emergency podcast and say, oh my gosh, it's happening.

      [00:22:06] We have another note in here though, around the total value. So it's like a different way of measuring the NFE market. We're talking about. But how do you look at the sort of value quote, unquote of,

      [00:22:19] yeah, you're right. This is, so this is another way of looking at it and this is. Specific to crypto art, digital art, and not necessarily NMT collections, but crypto art.io is a site that tracks NFT art and they value.

      [00:22:34] They have an estimate of about 2.8 billion for all of. All of digital crypto art. I'm not that sold last year. Just the total value. So the, just to put that one in perspective, the volume for traditional R for all art last year, including digital was 65 billion. So. We would have seen, let's see, almost 22 weeks or so.

      [00:23:03] The, we would had to seek a 22 X the turnover of all of the digital art for it to equate to that much. So there's just a very small amount. That's whoa, a small amount of art, but also a very small amount of value that's currently on on the blockchain and in NFT art. So I think that we're going to start seeing that change.

      [00:23:22] I think there's going to be a lot of traditional. Art collectors and art institutions that are moving into crypto in the future. You know, especially as more as more users come in, you know, it becomes a I don't know, any more meaningful piece to hold. And, you know, as you said, that's when the.

      [00:23:41] Inflection point in the metaverse will be when these digital goods become more meaningful and more, and therefore more valuable to us than a physical goods. And I think that's what we will see with some of these physical arts are these digital arts over time.

      [00:23:55] I just don't see how that isn't the future of this.

      [00:24:00] And it's weird. Cause I, I sometimes have to like look for alternative narratives to be like, oh, all of this is going to blow away. Like the wind. It's not going to say. No, I'm not going to save that thing. That by the way, has to sit in a warehouse or behind a screen that you can't ever see, but it sits over there as opposed to like my ability to use this in the metaverse use this in the real, like, I can put it up on a screen here and be like, Hey, here's my art.

      [00:24:24] I mean, I went over to the other day. I saw your art rotating the wall, and I'm like, I'm very jealous. I'm going to get one of those things, but I'm gonna get the next version that gives me a little more.

      [00:24:31] Oh, no,

      [00:24:33] I'm going to get the V2 can get the V2, but I just, I think just to come back to it this is the early adopter stage.

      [00:24:41] If you look at adoption cycles, we're in a micro height moment, let's just be very clear, like we're in a hype moment, 90, 95% of, if you look at the top 100 projects gone, go away. If you, if you look for the next five years, will they still be around? And that however, I think in the overall market and then in playing into it saying like, this is something you have to pay attention to.

      [00:25:05] And that's what gets me excited about this. And, you know, it's why I got fired up to do this podcast because I think this forces me to do the research and pay attention to it and also stay with it because there's, I will, I will say weeks where I'm kind of frustrated at decisions I've made quite a bit.

      [00:25:22] And like, that's the other thing it's like, it really stings. Like when you, you know, you buy a dud horse and you're like, why did I do that?

      [00:25:28] Great. I mean, if you think about the fact that anyone can. Yeah, can basically try to sell at any point. And, you know, even in these companies that are, you know, these, these projects that are trying to build something early, you know, it would be akin to someone saying, yes, I'm ready to invest in a, you know, at a seed round.

      [00:25:45] And then maybe two weeks later saying, you know what, as it moved fast enough, I'm ready to sell. And that would be, you know, that'd be kind of crazy. Kind of what we're working with in NFTs. So we haven't really had this sort of liquidity to a marketplace you know, and all of these different projects trying to do so many different things at the same time.

      [00:26:06] You know, I don't know that there's an apt comparison to look at for for what we're seeing in NFTs. Right.

      [00:26:12] I, I struggle, you know, you have to kind of cobble together a bunch to get there, but you know, also saying like, okay, if you're an early adopter, early adopter phase or about to go through a bit of a trough and a pullback fine.

      [00:26:24] But long-term like, where are we now versus where is it going to be? You know, you hear me talking about games non-stop and like trying to, you know, guess on soccer, but the smartest thing. Recently is kind of picking up on your lead of, of looking at capital a art versus PFPs things that are created by artists that are really defining the art movement of this time.

      [00:26:47] Like I'm still very much long on that. And I think they're, they're getting overlooked. They truly are. I'm really excited. I picked up a Sarah Zucker piece from that Ash chapter two and I also picked up And so, you know, I'm, I'm pretty pretty happy about both and holding on to both for a little while.

      [00:27:09] And it's because I know they're going to continue to create. And I think that there's like a moment in time where certainly, maybe it goes up and down, but longterm it sort of epitomizes like a type of artists at that at a moment right now that I hope that like one I'd want to display it. It's. And, and to sort of survive.

      [00:27:29] They're like, oh, it's not part of this PFP project that the community went away. Like the community is people that identify this as art created by an artist in this moment, that is a typical of a style and format that was Sarah this time.

      [00:27:43] Yeah, I think that's, yeah, that's great. I mean, those are two artists that have definitely shown dedication to their work and.

      [00:27:50] I think he can be pretty comfortable knowing that they will be around here, be around in the space. Interesting. Interesting to note the dead fellows artist is also a female seat. So we invested in two of the more well-known females in the in this face. So

      [00:28:08] you're

      [00:28:09] given a little hint on our next our next step.

      [00:28:12] I want to give way too much alpha. Don't want to get.

      [00:28:14] All right. So how big is the NFTE market? Keep in mind, very early 500,000. They'll you'll see like numbers, like a million, but monthly active users. What we care about, people throwing things around and a lot more to come. Obviously when, when Coinbase is the elephant in the room, but it continues.

      [00:28:31] Yeah. If you were,

      [00:28:32] if you were in and if these at all right now, you were early in the space and well ahead of many others, and there's a lot left to come, I would say. So feel free to hop in our discord. We encourage you to up in our discourse yet

      [00:28:44] it have some projects. Stop me from continuing to find horse, horse related.

      [00:28:48] If you have, honestly, if you can find something that relates to horses and playing soccer or something, please bring it to versus playing

      [00:28:56] soccer. You immediately get in our discord at three NFT and you bring that to me right now.